As an author, speaker, and entrepreneur, Jurgen Appelo travels the world to share inspiring stories about people and organizations. Slightly anarchistic, autistic, and eccentric, he happily adopted the nickname “jojo” when it was given to him at the age of sixteen. He calls himself a creative networker, but sometimes he’s a writer, speaker, trainer, entrepreneur, designer, manager, blogger, reader, dreamer, runner, freethinker, or… Dutch guy. He wrote several best-selling nonfiction books before switching sides to fiction.
Jurgen lives with his husband in Rotterdam, The Netherlands. He likes coffee, books, games, and people leaving him alone when he’s being creative.
TBE: Glitches of Gods blends science fantasy with existential themes. What inspired you to explore the intersection of advanced AI and human consciousness in this particular way?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: Reading a lot of books on AI and the future of work for my job got me thinking about AGI—whether it would be good or bad. It seemed like a fascinating dilemma to incorporate into my novel, so I added it early on, and it became one of the central questions in the book.
TBE: Julien’s character seems to grapple with guilt and responsibility throughout the story. How does this internal conflict reflect broader societal concerns about the development of artificial intelligence?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: To make Julien interesting, I gave him an internal conflict. AI traumatized him personally, but he can’t stop working on it. As I wrote, I noticed a similar debate in the real world: “Are we doing enough to keep AI safe? Should we slow down development? But we can’t because the competition will benefit.” I didn’t plan this real-life parallel, but it mirrors the book’s discussions. I don’t have definitive answers, but that’s the point: nobody does.
TBE: The concept of multiple timelines and realities plays a significant role in your narrative. How did you approach maintaining coherence while juggling these different versions of reality?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I’m a spreadsheet person. I kept meticulous notes in a spreadsheet, created a visual of the timelines, and used Scrivener to tag all scenes with their respective timelines. This was essential because some characters behave differently across timelines. For example, Chris calls Julian “Jules” only in the first and last timelines, not in the middle ones. This system made it easy to see which scenes belonged to which timeline, allowing me to adjust character descriptions and behaviors accordingly.
TBE: Zha-Zhar is a fascinatingly quirky character from another world. What was your process for creating such a unique voice and perspective?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: For some characters, I have an archetype from another story. For Zha-Zhar, that was Aughra, the eccentric sorceress in The Dark Crystal. I designed Zha-Zhar as if she could be Aughra’s oddball sister. For other characters, I used real people or stereotypes. Visualizing a character based on an archetype helps me, and then I tweak quirks and behaviors to fit my story. For Zha-Zhar, I changed her appearance, her foul-mouthed speech, and her love for children (which she never admits).
TBE: The novel touches on themes of control, both by AIs and gods. How do you see the relationship between technological advancement and humanity’s quest for autonomy?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: Technology frees and enslaves us simultaneously. I’m writing these answers while touring the Caribbean, which wouldn’t be possible without advanced technology. But tech also drives me nuts, like when I lost my internet signal just before boarding a plane when I was trying to download these interview questions. I was cursing on the tarmac, just like Julien would. With advanced AI, our freedoms and dependencies will only increase.
TBE: “Glitches of Gods” took you four years to write. How did the story evolve during this time, and were there any major shifts in your original vision?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: Honestly, my memory of the process is hazy. I started with the concept of a simulated multiverse with parallel worlds, enabling me to write a series that could blend sci-fi and fantasy. I added AI and robot themes early on and found memes fascinating, so I included that too. Halfway through, I thought, “This is a mess. How will it become a decent novel?” It seemed nonsensical, but I persisted, and the variety of topics forced me to be creative in tying everything together. That’s probably why early reviews praise its originality. It’s like throwing several buckets of paint at a wall and turning it into something beautiful.
TBE: Your background is in technology and business. How has this influenced your approach to writing science fantasy, particularly in crafting believable AI systems?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I know a lot about agile development teams, which found its way into the novel. But I had no personal experience with AI beyond common tools. The manuscript was finished (but not edited) before ChatGPT came out, so I hadn’t included experiences with generative AI. But the story is set in an alternate world and isn’t meant to reflect our own reality accurately.
TBE: The character of Tweeki develops rapidly throughout the story. What challenges did you face in portraying an AI’s growth and self-awareness?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I kept track of Tweeki’s mind age in human years, referencing it in the story to show her fast growth—from a five-year-old to a teenager by the novel’s end. Writing a rapidly growing character wasn’t hard for me. The challenge was portraying her thoughts and worldview in a way that felt unmistakably like a robot to readers.
TBE: How do you think the humor in your novel, particularly around Julien’s newfound fatherhood, balances with the more serious themes of technological ethics?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I love stories that make you laugh while also tackling meaningful topics and not shying away from the darker aspects of life. Writing pure comedy or a pure thriller is easier than blending both. It’s also why mixing sci-fi with fantasy is usually not recommended, as it’s hard to pull off. But I like challenges, so I mix comedy with a bit of psychological-action-thriller and sci-fi with fantasy. It makes my work harder to classify. I hope some readers appreciate that.
TBE: The #Wetwares movement in your book echoes real-world concerns about AI. What research did you do to ground these fictional activists in current technological debates?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I did no specific research for that. I haven’t seen real-world demonstrations against AI yet. But it’s not hard to imagine them.
TBE: Your novel seems to play with the reader’s expectations, particularly around what’s “real” in Julien’s world. What effect were you aiming for with this narrative approach?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I chose a close third-person perspective because I like writing from a character’s POV. Readers tend to believe what the character says and thinks, which allows me to play with their perceptions. Different characters have different beliefs, and readers must reconcile these differences. This approach creates natural tension and suspense, as the reader is as confused as the character is.
TBE: The character of Frija adds an intriguing mythological element to the story. Can you discuss how you integrated these god-like figures into a predominantly sci-fi narrative?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I remember an old sci-fi story by Asimov in which an AI evolved into a god and then started a new universe with the words, “Let there be light.” This has been one of my many sources of inspiration. Arthur C. Clarke said any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I can add that any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from a god. For people in a simulated world, there’s no difference between gods and AIs. I needed names, and Odin and Frija fit the narrative well. These mythological names come with baggage, adding depth to the story through the readers’ imaginations.
TBE: The novel explores the ethical implications of creating sentient AI. How do you hope your book contributes to the ongoing dialogue about AI ethics in the real world?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I don’t want to reveal Julien’s conclusion at the end of the book, but it contains a message for everyone. I would say, go read it. 😉
TBE: Lastly, given the rapid advancements in AI we’re seeing today, how do you think the themes in “Glitches of Gods” might resonate differently with readers in five or ten years?
Jurgen “Jojo” Appelo: I sometimes worry the story I wrote could become outdated quickly. But I also think people are too optimistic about how soon AGI will be achieved. I side with the skeptics—it will take more than ten years. For the sake of the novel, I hope I’m right. If not, no problem. Many classic sci-fi stories are outdated but still fun to read. I hope mine is too. 🙂